Belkin F1DC1XXH Pro3 KVM keyboard control
- @david
I have a Belkin F1DC108H KVM in my homelab server rack, I bought a TinyPilot 2a POE, hoping to remotely control the devices in my rack (yes $527 investment in hope is well, alternatives are $1000+).
I get VGA signal, but I am unable to control the KVM by keyboard, i.e. scrllock+scrllock+space is supposed to bring up OSD, but nothing.
If I go to the rack and pull out the tray, then scrllock+scrllock+space or scrllock+scrllock+0+1, etc, works as normal.
I've read several reports of the KVM not emulating an actual HID keyboard, but a hub with a keyboard.
Could this be the issue, how can I test, is HID keyboard emulation on the roadmap?
[Update 1]:
I was having some general keyboard issues using the KVM's console, so I swapped the KVM controller for another old used one, keyboard behaved.
I then swapped the VGA->HDMI converter for a different model that has a flexi VGA cable, and powered it from external power (the one that is sold by TinyPilot is rigid and VGA adapter + HDMI cable takes too much space and does not fit the rack depth).
Reconnected the TinyPilot, no signal, reboot TinyPilot, and I get video and the keyboard is working, and I can invoke OSD.
So, not yet 100% confident this will keep working, but for now it seems to work.
[Update 2]
I noticed that devices that BIOS boot in 720x400 does not show up on the TinyPilot, but do output on the local VGA monitor, as soon as the BIOS screen switches to 800x600 the TinyPilot KVM displays the screen. I don't know if this is on the HDMI capture end or on the VGA to HDMI end.
I also noticed that if I mount virtual media the KVM (physical KVM with screen and keyboard) stops responding completely, as soon as I unmount the media the console works again, so virtual media is not an option.
David @david2024-11-04 13:10:15.425ZHi @ptr727, I'm sorry you're running into these issues interfacing with your Belkin KVM.
Some customers connect their TinyPilot to a KVM switch to control multiple target machines, but I don't think anyone has tried using TinyPilot with a rack-mounted console KVM. We have a wiki of KVM switches that community members have contributed to that you might find interesting. Compatibility can vary on the KVM switch you chain your TinyPilot to (hotkey switching for example).
I've read several reports of the KVM not emulating an actual HID keyboard, but a hub with a keyboard.
Could this be the issue, how can I test, is HID keyboard emulation on the roadmap?TinyPilot does emulate a HID keyboard, but TinyPilot appears to target machines as a USB hub with a HID keyboard, HID mouse, and a USB drive attached (when using virtual media).
Devices that have dedicated keyboard/mouse USB ports may not be compatible with USB hubs depending on how they handle USB input, so that could explain the behavior here.
I noticed that devices that BIOS boot in 720x400 does not show up on the TinyPilot
Unfortunately, TinyPilot doesn't support 720x400 via the TinyPilot VGA adapter (and likely other VGA adapters). When using HDMI only, TinyPilot supports 720x400 at 87.850Hz.
I also noticed that if I mount virtual media the KVM (physical KVM with screen and keyboard) stops responding completely, as soon as I unmount the media the console works again, so virtual media is not an option.
This may be related to the USB behavior we're seeing with the keyboard. If your console KVM expects separate mouse/keyboard connections, it may not support TinyPilot's virtual media when it appears, so that could explain this behavior.
TinyPilot is generally used as an alternative to rack-mounted console KVMs (especially when using TinyPilot in conjunction with a KVM switch to handle multiple target machines), rather than an extension to them. Have you tried connecting your TinyPilot directly to a target machine instead of trying to control one via the console KVM (particularly for virtual media)?
I hope this helps!
Please let me know if you have any questions.
- PPieter @ptr727
Thank you for the reply.
This KVM can be added to the Wiki as working partially, keyboard works, virtual media does not work, 720x400 does not work, higher resolutions work, mouse not so much.
For the mouse I noticed that tracking is way off, my mouse cursor and the cursor on the remote screen plays catchup making the mouse not usable. While using the motherboard's built in IPMI HTML5 KVM mouse works fine.
For 720x400 I found lots of discussions in retro gaming forums on supporting these DOS style resolutions, and the hardware required gets expensive, and/or is no longer manufactured. I ordered a used Startech VGA2HDPRO2 that should work, while other current $$$ solutions like OSSC may also work but is excessive.As for connecting directly, that defeats the purpose, I have multiple machines, and I'm not going to buy multiple TinyPilots when I have a rack KVM, nor am I going to open the rack and move the TinyPilot around.
At some point used enterprise IP KVM rack mount gear, e.g. Vertiv Avocent MergePoint, is cheaper than a TinyPilot plus rack KVM only.
David @david2024-11-05 12:24:42.597ZThanks @ptr727, I've added the Belkin KVM to our wiki - if you have time, could you quickly review the new entry and confirm I've got the details correct? It's the last entry in the limited compatibility section.
For the mouse I noticed that tracking is way off and the cursor on the remote screen plays catchup
If the cursor is lagging behind, switching to H.264 streaming may help here. If the cursor is just in the wrong place (even when static), that might point to a different issue.
As for connecting directly, that defeats the purpose, I have multiple machines, and I'm not going to buy multiple TinyPilots when I have a rack KVM, nor am I going to open the rack and move the TinyPilot around.
Apologies - I meant have you tried connecting TinyPilot directly to confirm that the compatibility issues are with the console KVM?
- PPieter @ptr727
I've added the Belkin KVM to our wiki - if you have time, could you quickly review the new entry and confirm I've got the details correct?
Looks ok.
If the cursor is lagging behind, switching to H.264 streaming may help here. If the cursor is just in the wrong place (even when static), that might point to a different issue.
Cursor lags and then looses tracking position, as if the mouse movement is not sent, or sent too slow. Display is in H264 mode.
Apologies - I meant have you tried connecting TinyPilot directly to confirm that the compatibility issues are with the console KVM?
Ah, I misunderstood, I did, keyboard and mouse and video normal seems to work ok, did not try virtual media.
- David @david2024-11-06 12:14:35.371Z
Looks ok.
Thanks!
Cursor lags and then looses tracking position, as if the mouse movement is not sent, or sent too slow.
Interesting - TinyPilot currently uses absolute mouse positioning, rather than relative mouse positioning, so we'd expect TinyPilot's mouse position to update the target machine's position to the location on the screen even if some earlier input fails.
Do you notice whether the display is stretched/scaled oddly or whether it has blank bars on any sides? That could affect how your target machine interprets mouse positioning.
Could you share a TinyPilot log for me to review? On your TinyPilot web interface, go to System > Logs and click Get Shareable URL. Then paste the link in your reply.
If you could share a screenshot showing this behavior, that would help too.
Ah, I misunderstood, I did, keyboard and mouse and video normal seems to work ok, did not try virtual media.
Perfect, thanks for testing that! It sounds like the issues we're seeing are mostly due to this incompatibility with your console KVM.
Please let me know if you have any questions.