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No signal --- how to troubleshoot?

By @davideb
    2022-11-05 14:31:30.023Z2022-11-05 14:59:29.665Z

    Purchased TinyPilot Pro via, version 2.5.0, with VGA adapter.
    I am getting a blank screen with "no Signal" message --- thinking it was a video issue I tried with 2 other different HDMI cable I regularly use, I powered the VGA adapter power supply with the tinyPilot (USB ports in the front ) and then with the host USB port. No apparent changes.
    FWIW the host is a Windows 10 desktop, working properly via VGA. As an additional test I connected the VGA adapter to an HDMI monitor and I can see the screen with altered colors.
    Here's the link to logs

    After a full restart of the host the screen is alterantively showing strange video artifacts and the "no signal", as As I use Edge I also tried with Chrome with no changes. FWIW another logs after the strange screen errors

    Solved in post #12, click to view
    • 12 replies
    1. David @david2022-11-07 12:13:24.215Z

      Hi @davideb, sorry that you're running into this No Signal issue. And thanks for sharing those logs!

      It looks like your target machine is trying to output at resolutions that TinyPilot doesn't support. In both instances it wants to use 1080p@60Hz. And in the second instance it also tries to use 1536x1080@60Hz which is probably the cause of those video artifacts.

      Can you try changing your refresh rate to 50Hz or 30Hz for 1080p (if it's possible on Windows 10)? Alternatively, changing the output resolution to 720p is well supported and will work.

      1. D
        In reply todavideb:
          2022-11-07 21:13:01.469Z

          I might be missing something -- I connected locally to my Windows 10 host and changed resolution to 1280*720, unable to change from 60Hz to 50Hz. FWIW I rebooted the host, I rebooted TinyPilot.
          Here's the log, it seems TinyPilot always tries to connect differently?

          Nov 07 21:10:21 tinypilot ustreamer[603]: -- INFO  [331.188    stream] -- Got new DV-timings: 1920x1080p60.00, pixclk=148500000, vsync=45, hsync=280
          Nov 07 21:10:21 tinypilot ustreamer[603]: -- INFO  [331.208    stream] -- Using resolution: 1920x1080

          Should I be able to use TinyPilot with Windows 10?

          1. David @david2022-11-08 16:34:53.743Z

            Thanks for the updated log! I think this issue of continually attempting to use 1080p60Hz stems from the VGA adapter. Do you have an HDMI output on the target machine? Or is it only VGA? If you have HDMI, it will solve the issue. But I'll do my best to find a solution using the VGA adapter.

            Usually, with only the TinyPilot and the target machine connected by HDMI, the two devices negotiate a resolution that works best. With the VGA adapter in the chain, the VGA adapter negotiates with the target machine and seems to set 1080p@60Hz as a default (which TinyPilot can't support). So we need to try and set the resolution with both the VGA adapter and TinyPilot in the chain.

            It's tricky because you can't access the display settings with TinyPilot and the VGA adapter if it can't use 1080p@60hz. Surprisingly, we've never seen this issue before, but I have been able to reproduce the problem (though I'm not using Windows).

            My suggestion would be to try and boot Windows into safe mode to force a lower VGA resolution (using a regular display). And then:

            • Disconnect the display
            • Connect TinyPilot to the target machine using the VGA adapter
            • Check whether you get a signal
            • Try and change the display resolution to something better than the default in safe mode (but still lower than 1080p@60hz)
            • Shutdown the target machine
            • Boot it back up with TinyPilot connected, and see if the target machine saved the resolution settings.

            I'm still looking into this, so I'll create another reply if I find anything else.

            1. D@davideb
                2022-11-08 17:18:38.401Z

                No HDMI here, only VGA: I bought TinyPilot because I presumed it supported as the store sold the VGA adapter.
                Does it help your effort to do this test on my part? Will try it, I'm asking as I'm not sure this is a sustainable option in the long run --- what would happen at the next reboot cycle?

                1. David @david2022-11-08 18:24:30.881Z

                  No HDMI here, only VGA: I bought TinyPilot because I presumed it supported as the store sold the VGA adapter.

                  No trouble at all! TinyPilot does support using the VGA adapter. However, most people using the VGA adapter use it on machines that default to a lower resolution than 1080p@60hz. So we haven't run into this issue before.

                  I understand that booting into safe mode is a hassle just to try a resolution setting. I'm hoping that Windows will save the display configuration once it's set. So that when you reboot into regular mode your computer will use the working resolution. My understanding is that the display configuration gets saved once it has been set up, and that it's tied to the display. Which might be why setting the resolution to 720p on a different monitor didn't carry over to the TinyPilot the first time round.

                  If you're able to test this that would be great! I would have tested it myself, but I don't have access to a Windows machine, unfortunately.

                  1. D@davideb
                      2022-11-19 17:00:26.616Z

                      I tried to connect via VGA, set the resolution to 1024*768, then restart it. No signal, see logs
                      Is there a chance Windows + VGA will be supported?

                      1. David @david2022-11-22 12:50:29.527Z

                        Thanks for trying that @davideb!

                        Unfortunately, the only other idea I have here is to try a different VGA to HDMI adapter or a VGA to HDMI cable. But I'm not sure whether that would change the behaviour. I think the underlying issue is that the VGA adapter is negotiating 1080p@60Hz with the target computer and outputting at those display settings. And because TinyPilot doesn't support 1080p@60Hz, it's not able to display the image.

                2. In reply todavideb:
                  EEliah @Eliah
                    2022-11-22 21:39:33.276Z

                    Yes, the TinyPilot works fine with Windows 10. You can adjust the "refresh rate" in Windows. Go to Settings, Display, and look for advanced display settings (small link in the main Display window). Open that:

                  • D
                    In reply todavideb:
                      2022-11-23 21:16:20.483Z

                      The screen I have, connected via VGA, has 60hz as the lowest refresh rate: I suppose I have no other means to test if it works.

                      1. D@davideb
                          2022-11-25 19:25:18.517Z2022-11-25 19:51:39.639Z

                          I found out my server also has display port video output so I bought a DisplayPort to HDMI cable, connected to a screen, changed refresh rate to 50hz and reduced resolution. I then connect it to Tinypilot and it works for few seconds, then back to "no signal". Here is the log

                          Nov 25 19:44:19 tinypilot ustreamer[599]: -- INFO  [22.754    stream] -- Capturing ...
                          Nov 25 19:44:20 tinypilot ustreamer[599]: -- ERROR [23.755    stream] -- Persistent device timeout (unplugged)
                          1. D@davideb
                              2022-11-25 20:08:42.140Z

                              Power settings turned off the screen: it works once I disable it. Solved with DisplayPort, no way with VGA.

                              1. David @david2022-11-28 12:26:15.573Z

                                Thanks for the update @davideb! I'm glad you're now up and running using a DisplayPort to HDMI cable. I'm sorry that I couldn't help get it working with VGA.

                                Could you tell me which DisplayPort to HDMI cable you're using? The team has yet to look into adapters other than VGA. So it could be something to look into in the future.